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 Post subject: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:10 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Not much happening on the forum for quite some time now!

I was in a tackle shop today in New Zealand, looking for some heavy Toby lures to use for Mahseer fishing and other species.

The maximum weight that was available in this particular make (Killwell of NZ) was 20gm, which I felt was inadequate for my purposes.

I was about to walk away when the sales assistant showed me a neat trick they use in New Zealand to make these lures heavier, so as to catch salmon in their large,fast flowing rivers.

He showed me how to double the Toby by placing one on top of the other, which is possible as they are very symmetrical. This way, one effectively gets a lure that weighs 40gms with the same action!

You of course have to remove all existing split rings and use a much larger size that will go through both holes, so as to join the lures, and then use a larger hook as well.

I thought this was a neat idea and wound up picking up a pair of these Toby lures. Now I just have to try them out on those tempting rivers!

Cheers,
Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:47 am 
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Fishaholic

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Location: Sydney, Australia
Some quick pictures corroborating the above, I have not yet had the time to double the lures.


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Last edited by kingfish on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:53 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Some lovely DAM lures I also picked up locally, excellent for tiger fish in Africa and I am pretty confident these would be good for Mahseer.

The New Zealanders use these to catch salmon in their fast running rivers.

Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:26 am
Posts: 77
Seems like a pretty neat trick and a good selection of colors especially for the Mahseer!

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:10 am 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Hong Kong
I remember in the old days some of the guys used to melt led into these Toby spoons and stick it with araldite, they seem to have worked.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: Sydney, Australia
Hello Bobby,

So where and for what species did they use these lures, please? Mahseer .. barra?

Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Kingfish,
Very interesting. I will give this a try sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:24 am 
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Fishaholic
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kingfish wrote:
Hello Bobby,

So where and for what species did they use these lures, please? Mahseer .. barra?

Kingfish


For Ravas/Threadfin and Barramundi, but I remember some of the guys who fished fresh water did so for Mahseer too, but mostly for the former salt water species given the distances they needed to cast, we needed heavy spoons.

Most of us used to make our own spoons, I had a homemade spoon that was given to me by a friend of mine that was well over 50 grams perhaps more like 70, Mild Steel; chrome plated, flat, tapered 2 cm at one end about and 1.5 - 1.7 cm at the other, about 4mm thick. It was the most effective spoon I have ever used. The bend was towards the front about a third of its length from the top. It had a more angular edges that were slightly rounded with a grinder/File. The reason I believe this spoon was so effective was the positioning of the bend. It caused the spoon to "flutter" in the water as opposed to "wag". I made several copies of brass and have a few even today. You could cast it a devil of a distance and boy did it work. Treble hooks were at both ends of the lure.

We even had guys who made heavy spoons, old timers will remember a guy in Mumbai called Ivan Wallace who made his famous Dexter and Heavy Dexter which were very popular. I still have these spoons. Some of the guys named these spoons "Dodger" because they complained they wagged too mush and the fish missed the lure, so the straightened them a bit or glued a lump of lead if the depression at the back.

Ha Ha...miss those days, when I had more fish than equipment to my name :)


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:54 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Sydney, Australia
" Treble hooks were at both ends of the lure" ?! How would one cast such a thing?

Bobby, it would be great if you could post some pictures of those homemade lures!

Regards,
Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:43 am 
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Fishaholic
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Yes trebles at both ends!! and they did work, the reason these guys did so is because they believed the predatory fish hit the head of the baitfish rather than the tail as it is easy to swallow a fish head first. It is logical when you think about it.

There was also a guy called Ferrie, who had this unusual spoon he used to make himself the top of the spoon was flat and straight (it may have had a very very slight bend cant remember), however if you looked at it from the side, the front section, a third of the length from the front was much thinner and flat and the other 2/3rds (towards the end) was broad and weighted the angle where it thickened and about 120 degrees if I try to picture it from memory. The spoon was very angular and the spoon was also tapered towards the front end if you looked at it from the top. It was a real heavy spoon, and he would cast it a huge distance with his 12 foot surf casting rod, he got the longest casts and also the most hits on this spoon, again when you think about it where this angle was and where my spoons bend was was towards the front end, as opposed to the conventional spoon having the curve towards the rear end. Again this spoon had a magnificent flutter as opposed to a wag.

How well did they work with hooks at both ends? To my eye they worked fine, but then again I never did bother to compare hit ratio to a spoon with a treble at the tail end only. We all had hooks at both ends of the spoon, all the trace lines were stainless steel when we fished in salt water and we never caught anything on these lures other than Threadfin and Barramundi, I did catch Mangrove Jacks once on a slimmed down version of these spoons (the heavy one with the bend in front) and the very rare rock cod. I was the first one to take out the metal leader and switch to mono and that was only after i switched to plastics. The hit ratio more than doubled without the metal leader on spoon and plastics.

I will take a look to see if I have any of these lures here with me in Hong Kong, but I doubt it. When I go back to Mumbai I will photograph a few of these old spoons and post the pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:39 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hello Bobby,

Now we know the value of old hands on the forum!

Who else could tell us of bygone anglers and their innovative gear, especially in those days when angling gear in India was so hard to obtain!

My thanks to you Bobby for this interesting and informative vignette and sincerely hope you can post some pictures for us to see.

Regards,
Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:33 am 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Hong Kong
Hi Kingfish,

Those were interesting times in India, tackle was so very dear, I was lucky I lived 3 minutes from the sea just off Carter Road, so I learnt to fish there at a very young age, during the holidays i fished on a daily basis, sometimes breaking and going home for lunch and then getting back to angling after. When i started spinning all I had was one spoon which was a home made affair. Some of the guys tell me that they actually used hand line with a spoon that they used no rod and reel, I saw this only once and it was a few years ago on a beach called Honawar at the dead of night. A lot of my trebles were actually bound singles.

Angling books were hard to come by especially for someone like me with very limited financial means and there was no internet, learning to fish was just by observation and trial and error. A lot of the old timers applied more superstition than science but yes, they also did have a wealth of knowledge but it was up to you the sieve the the wheat from the chaff.



Regards,

Bobby


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Bangalore, Kanyakumari
Bobby wrote:
Hi Kingfish,

Some of the guys tell me that they actually used hand line with a spoon that they used no rod and reel, I saw this only once and it was a few years ago on a beach called Honawar at the dead of night. A lot of my trebles were actually bound singles.

Regards,
Bobby


In my native it is quite common to see local fisherman using lures with hand line. But 10 years back the same set of local fisherman used to crack jokes at me for using lures in the shore.

Last week I retrieved a snagged lure. It is a duplicate halco laser pro used by the local fisherman. They have used single 'J' hook and connected it to the lure using wire leader. I have the lure in my native and next week again I am going there and will post a pic of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Sydney, Australia
Venkat,

Look forward to the pictures ... ingenuity knows no boundaries!

Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:05 am 
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Fishaholic
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Hi All,

Was going through some of my old pictures as the wife was in one of her creative moods making a scrapbook for my daughters birthday and came across these pictures of the lures I was talking about, I am pretty sure that I have posted these images at some point on this site already, but here goes anyway:


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:44 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 1038
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hello Bobby,

Thanks for posting the pictures ... as they say, necessity is the mother of all inventions!

I notice that the lovely Barra was caught with a Daiwa GS reel, is that the same reel you posted a picture of a little while ago?

Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Fishaholic
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The Diawa GS9, yes it is the same reel, my old work horse...


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Bangalore, Kanyakumari
h_venkatesan wrote:
Last week I retrieved a snagged lure. It is a duplicate halco laser pro used by the local fisherman. They have used single 'J' hook and connected it to the lure using wire leader. I have the lure in my native and next week again I am going there and will post a pic of that.


Here are the pictures..

Regards,
H.Venkatesan.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:32 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:53 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Nice pictures, Venkat.

Change the hooks and split rings and reuse it for barra!

Kingfish


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:37 am 
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Fishaholic
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Hi Venkat,

Can you post a close up picture of the lip of that lure, I do not think it may be a Halco after all. There was a guy in Chennai that I met some years ago who made copies of these lures that he sold commercially in the local market in India, his name was David if I remember correctly, and he made these lures under a brand called Sea Queen.

Regards,

Bobby


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Bangalore, Kanyakumari
Bobby wrote:
Hi Venkat,

Can you post a close up picture of the lip of that lure, I do not think it may be a Halco after all. There was a guy in Chennai that I met some years ago who made copies of these lures that he sold commercially in the local market in India, his name was David if I remember correctly, and he made these lures under a brand called Sea Queen.

Regards,

Bobby


In the last image near the tail "Halco" is written, but this is a duplicate lure available in stores at our place.


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 Post subject: Re: Doubling lures
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am 
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Fishaholic
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Posts: 3025
Location: Hong Kong
:lol: :lol: :lol: Looks like David is still in business :D :D


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